Deadhead Cannabis Show Illinois Adult use & Widespread Panic
Jim Marty: [00:00:02] So.
Jim Marty: [00:00:02] Yes. Hey this is Jim marty here.
Jim Marty: [00:00:29] And Larry Mishkin. Hey Larry how are you today.
Larry Mishkin: [00:00:34] I'm doing just fine Jim. How are you actually. But last time we talked you were getting ready to walk your way into a Phil Lesh concert over a great show you read rock. Why did I want a great show. He was great. I go see him all day long.
Jim Marty: [00:00:51] You know I've never been disappointed with Phil less show and 79 years old. He just played great. He just filled Red Rocks with his bass guitar. The setlist was great a great Jack Straw and they did comes the time which I haven't really seen perform live in a very long time in fact I turned to my son and his girlfriend who were next year I said the last time I saw this song played by Jerry Garcia was singing and he was standing right over there.
Larry Mishkin: [00:01:25] Right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yes I saw Jerry do it a couple of times to do. I was at the Greek Theater in 85 when they broke it out and it just brought the house down. It's a great tune and listen. Well who better to cover it than Phil left right.
Jim Marty: [00:01:43] Yeah. What a great guy. He came out to play with a warm up and he did two 90 minute sets and a Terrapin Station on court at 79 years old.
Larry Mishkin: [00:01:53] And that's that's really what's amazing. Think about this right. My dad is only a few years older than that and I couldn't imagine my dad playing rock n roll at all let alone for four hours at a time.
Jim Marty: [00:02:05] Yeah. As joking to the people next to me at one of the younger musicians from the string dusters I believe it was who we plenty haven't filled in the rest of the band went up to her to fill and they were kind of talking about what song they were gonna play next. And I kind of adlib to my group. I said What are we going to play next Mr.. Mr. Lesh we're going to play whatever the fuck I want to play. He's 79 years old. That's right. So anyway actually right. We should talk about some cannabis stuff and what's been happened in the last week. We've had major developments. We had the license applications came out in Missouri and we'll talk about that maybe next week. Once they have my head around it a little more and then we had some early developments in Illinois this week that maybe Larry can fill us in on.
Larry Mishkin: [00:02:55] Well Jim you know I have to tell you it's like Welcome to the big leagues here in Illinois. And we couldn't be more excited after lots of talk and lots of speculation and rumors of every kind you can imagine. Last Friday we learned that the Illinois Senate had excuse me the Illinois House had approved the are the adult use cannabis bill that was questioned proposed by New Governor Jay Pritzker. And I was actually out in Boston at the time visiting my son when I got word and my phone started ringing off the hook. I was getting more text than I knew what to do with. And I said to my wife we better enjoy this weekend because I might not have another one off in a long time. This is this is just great. So and what I like about it is it sounds like it's a very reasonable bill in terms of how it's going to work.
Larry Mishkin: [00:03:49] It has good personal limits for both in-state and out-of-state in terms of what you can purchase at a time and most importantly Jim it's something that you and I talked about previously. It's got a wonderful social equity component to it that will hopefully get you very much involved people who come from those neighborhoods that were disproportionately affected by the war on drugs.
Larry Mishkin: [00:04:13] We just could not be more excited about the bill here. Really the only thing that people are wondering is how the heck do I get one of these licenses and unfortunately the news I have to give to everyone is that basically for the first year you're not going to get one. They're going to allow the medical people to run the show with their current cultivation centers and every current medical dispensary license holder can apply to make their medical dispensary a medical slash for adult use dispensary and they can also get up to one additional license for a separate standalone adult use dispensary.
Larry Mishkin: [00:04:55] So you know whether that'll be enough. I don't know when in fact that's the first thing I wanted to ask you Jim because one of the big issues here is this question of you know can the medical people currently keep up with the demand that's anticipated and Colorado kind of did a little bit differently. But what what happened with the demand in Colorado and the ability to service it when adult use kicked in here.
Jim Marty: [00:05:18] Well for the most part the people who had medical marijuana dispensaries saw their sales increase between 50 and 100 percent. So the cultivation people really had to step up their game and get get product to market so it could be sold. When does the adult use program open up in Illinois will the first legal adult is cannabis be sold.
Larry Mishkin: [00:05:47] January 1st just a few months off and then the correction sort of what they're doing is the current medical people within the first 30 days now that the program has been announced they can go ahead and they can start submitting their applications to expand their current facility into a double use and for the additional license and from what I know from talking to some of those licence holders that they've already been out just for a while in anticipation of this happening and it's going to be quite a thing Illinois's medical program has been I don't want to say a total failure but not a financial bonanza that any of the licence holders imagined it would be given the severe restrictions in Illinois by becoming a medical patient and devastatingly low number of patients even right now that are actually available and have the ability to go by the medical cannabis. And now they're going to go from many of these people barely holding on to what we hope will be you know a turnaround in tremendous financial success. Illinois will shoot as this bill passes Illinois becomes the second most populous state after California. With an adult youth program in Illinois its population is double that of Colorado's and we've seen the numbers that Colorado has brought in. So I got to say this state desperately needs that kind of revenue. Pritzker has made it a key component of his budget anticipated revenue from this new adult youth market.
Jim Marty: [00:07:24] Absolutely. Yes. We have. Bridge West has several Illinois clients and they have really struggled. They had far more production capacity than they had patients on the rolls so that was a huge drain on the Illinois medical marijuana model. So hopefully that will be fixed with this move to adult use. Yeah the suggestion I would have is to see if they'll allow the cultivators to start a harvest you know 60 to 90 days before January 1st so that they will have enough product on hand come January 1st of 2020.
Jim Marty: [00:08:04] Why is it that here is a big issue. I'm sure you've got you know.
Larry Mishkin: [00:08:09] Yeah. What's going to be interesting here is in fact somebody asked me this question the other day. Well you know Jesus adult juice. Why the hell should I know. Why do I need my medical marijuana card anymore. I said well starting with the assumption that you really didn't need it in the first place. Or however you want to address that situation. You can speak to this very well and I've seen it firsthand myself. If you're going into a Colorado dispensary to make a purchase if you're a patient in the program in Colorado the price is significantly less. Isn't that correct.
Jim Marty: [00:08:45] Yes. Slightly better pricing but a very significant difference in the taxes that you pay. Medical cannabis in Colorado was subject to our regular over-the-counter sales tax you would pay for any other item like a bottle of liquor 6 to 7 to 8 percent depending on how much the local taxes on top of the state tax. So that's the only tax on medical marijuana on adult use. There is a 15 percent excise tax when the pounds are transferred from the cultivation to the retail. So if you're retail only there is a 15 percent excise tax because we have slightly overproduction here in Colorado and falling prices that excise tax has been pushed back onto the producer. So from producer has his costs down to you know three or four hundred dollars a pound. He's got to add another hundred and fifty dollars onto each pound for the excise tax. So if you produce another three hundred and fifty dollars your true cost when you pay the excise tax is six hundred dollars for that pound. And that's true even if you transfer it internally from your grow to your dispensary on an integrated model.
Jim Marty: [00:10:04] So yeah my clients in Denver who are selling ounces for 75 dollars because of the competitive nature are also complaining that they basically feel like there's a 40 percent tax on the adult cannabis. You've got a 15 percent excise tax and instead of a 22 percent sales tax the sales tax on adult use is 22 percent. So twenty two plus 15 get you to 37 percent and that's for my clients and you know we're eating this 40 percent tax. You know I was at a dispensary today giving a tour to an out-of-state client and all the postings on the board were you know twenty five dollars for an eighth includes sales tax so the retail and and the cultivators really feel that they have to eat that sales tax to stay competitive in our market of falling prices. The other big wrinkle as medical goes to adult use is you know what is the minimum age to purchase. So in Colorado you have to be 21 to purchase cannabis but you can get a medical card and buy cannabis at 18 when you have a medical card.
Larry Mishkin: [00:11:19] So that's the whole to 21 and 21 but I fear that could be an issue.
Jim Marty: [00:11:24] Yeah yeah yeah over a boulder University is a lot of the students have their medical card because that's really where they can buy cannabis from age 18 to 21 legally.
Larry Mishkin: [00:11:36] That's right. That works out just fine. I hate to say it but it's a far cry from the way we used to get cannabis when we were back in college in the early 1980s. Kind of like you know Night and day situation you know instead of worrying and even find somebody who will sell it to me I hope it's not dirt outside.
Larry Mishkin: [00:11:57] Right. College kids go to their buy in the best stuff around. Yeah.
Jim Marty: [00:12:02] My out-of-state client was very impressed and amazed at the variety of strains and all the different products that she could buy.
Jim Marty: [00:12:10] You know I joked with her I said it's kind of like going to Disneyland isn't it.
Larry Mishkin: [00:12:14] Oh the first time I walked into a Colorado dispensary in 2014. At some point I did exactly what I said. It's like a date going to Disneyland. Look at this. This is just unbelievable. Who would ever imagine that you could walk into a store just as an adult just showing an I.D. and then you go and they're not just selling it but you can see it there.
Larry Mishkin: [00:12:39] You know try this try that. It's really something. And I think it's going to be a big big hit in Illinois. We're very very excited about it both from the financial perspective which also includes and I know you guys have a lot of this cannabis tourism. And you know I have to keep telling everybody that although it's a very tempting idea you're probably not one fact you're not going to be able to go to that matter to that adult use dispensary and pick up a free roll of hobby Kush and take it out to the bleachers at Wrigley Field you might have a little bit of a problem if you do that.
Jim Marty: [00:13:14] And this meeting with public consumption and I don't want on one of our allotted time slot here but you know we have a very pro cannabis governor right now Jared Polis and somebody was explaining to me all the bills that he is signing into law this month that will take effect July 1st so we're going to have publicly traded companies can buy Colorado Cannabis companies. It looks like we're going to get on consumption and then there was several just sort. Technical correction bills. But those are the big ones and I I said to this politician who was telling me about this I said Were there any marijuana bills that came to the legislature this session which ended in May that the governor didn't sign that. That didn't make it and he thought for a minute because you know no actually all the cannabis bills that came through the legislature looks set to be signed and passed into law. So oh another big one is University of Colorado Pueblo is going to open a true research and development center. This will be funded by the State Government So Colorado is continuing to emerge as a leader in the business side of cannabis and also the scientific study of cannabis. And I'm very glad to see Colorado doing that.
Larry Mishkin: [00:14:35] No. That's great stuff. I'm going to want to follow up with you perhaps in a future episode and talk more about this safe consumption and public consumption because I'll tell you nothing has even happened here. Here other than the announcement I've already had three clients call me they want to open up a smoking lounge. Well you can't do that under the Illinois watch just yet but there are people that people are looking that far down the road and see that prominent enough it right that that could change the way we glided recreated.
Jim Marty: [00:15:03] Yeah. Whenever we talk about on say consumption. Well of course public safety driving is an issue but not really not with Uber and Lyft. There's no reason say to drive if you're impaired on any substance. But people point out to me that I believe I have the number of correct that 40 percent of alcohol sales are on site consumption in bars and restaurants and sporting events. So it's a huge new potential business opportunity to have this on site consumption.
Larry Mishkin: [00:15:35] Yeah I think it's you know it'll be great. It'll be you to be able to go and do it anywhere.
Larry Mishkin: [00:15:40] You know that you could otherwise you know congregate and and recreate and relax and yes listen I I'm hoping that it's going to happen soon enough for me to be able to go out and really enjoy it.
Jim Marty: [00:15:52] Yes. So as we come to the end of our show here Larry asked me about the next show I'm going to go to the red rocks.
Larry Mishkin: [00:16:01] Well I would you know I was just about to do that Jim because I have a suspicion that I know where you're going so please tell us.
Jim Marty: [00:16:08] Well for many years the last weekend of June we get we had three widespread panic shows at Red Rocks Friday Saturday and Sunday and the sun is kind of a get out of town. It starts at 5:00 or 6:00 p.m. This year it's 6:00 p.m. so they do their usual three hour show and you're out of there by 9:00 30 10:00. So it's not the get home after midnight that most red rock shows are played to like almost 11:00 30 last week P.M.. Right. So so Penacoli got about nine thirty or ten and they really enjoy that the sun they call it the matinee because sure most of the show is in broad daylight and we have some pictures I think that will get posted up with the show I did last week from Red Rocks showing how pretty and how wonderful it is to see a band in broad daylight at Red Rocks in the late afternoon early evening.
Larry Mishkin: [00:17:08] Well it's My came at that at Red Rocks was magical and beautiful and a lifetime's worth of memories. Yeah. With the death. Yeah. It's the type of venue that really turns any show into a special show just because of where you are in the surroundings. But I will tell you this I know I know that we primarily like to talk about the dead and then fish and that's all good and dandy but widespread panic and there can be a lot of people who are set up the scene not me and I know that's true but widespread panic at least for I would say people of my generation is probably one of the better kept secrets of the music world and you know that it's not as many of my friends it seems or you know are as excited or as on board to go see widespread as they would be. Some of these other bands but I happen to see widespread panic for the first time. Probably by five years ago. Now the Jazz Fest in New Orleans and was blown away. Why haven't they been going to see these guys and now any kind of come to the Chicago area. I'm definitely on board for as many shows as I can get to and you know they've taken the Grateful Dead Fish model and you know carved out their own niche with it right with long crazy jams and stuff that you know you can tell me what you think. But for me the highlight of a great widespread show was the eclectic covers that they come up with.
Jim Marty: [00:18:34] Yes. Yeah. Including the J.J. Cale song traveling light.
Jim Marty: [00:18:41] Yes as one of their standards but it's actually as a J.J. Cale song that's not an original widespread panic song. Yeah. Much like the Grateful Dead and fish. It's very difficult to to get widespread panic unless you actually go and see them on a page McConnell official recently said you you have to come see us if you want to understand what we do. He said I can still walk down the street and nobody knows who I am. You know you have to be in the same room as us to get what we do. It's very true widespread panic. You just don't get that band until you see them. I've been fortunate enough that I've done a little newspaper work over the years and got to interview John Doyle and David schools and you know David schools certainly one of the great bass players in rock and roll today. He's another one that can just fill up Red Rocks with that big six. Modulus.
Larry Mishkin: [00:19:36] Yep yep. DAVID Well gave it for himself. Can almost fills up red rocks.
Larry Mishkin: [00:19:41] But that's a whole other big name. He is a big name a figment for him and ends up there.
Larry Mishkin: [00:19:47] And boy he just belts it out. I have to tell you right. Jimmy Herring is one of my all time favourite guitar players. Yeah.
Jim Marty: [00:19:53] He's a great I get enough of that. Ever since Jimmy Henry never solves I don't know if he does. Much of a voice but they listen to it.
Larry Mishkin: [00:20:02] If they're just in 2002 the Grateful Dead you know post Jerry has their first official quote unquote Terrapin family reunion at alpine valley up in Wisconsin.
Larry Mishkin: [00:20:14] And you know they had these two all day events with all sorts of other bands and then both nights you know this new revitalized whatever they were calling themselves at the time that that reunion you know they got up there on the stage and came out and just prayed. And I was gonna tell you what song they played and I can't even remember what it was. Oh I know what it was.
Larry Mishkin: [00:20:38] Yeah I know it was one of those things. But I just like music and everything is absolutely wonderful.
Jim Marty: [00:20:47] Yeah. So anyway I'm looking forward to seeing widespread panic here at the end of this month. And then of course July 5th and 6th we'll do the two Folsom shells and see you bowled at a finished dead and company summer tour. I've heard a little bit of it. They're playing pretty good John Mayer is really playing some blues is breaking out some old pig pen songs like hard to handle the Trinity some of the other ones they've been doing recently in the last in this current tour. But yeah John Mayer is amazing I think.
Larry Mishkin: [00:21:24] I'll be seeing them one week from tonight at Wrigley Field. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what you're. Here's what I was going to tell you before we went to that shop in Wisconsin. Hearing was the lead guitar player for them and I thought it was the end of the two nights that I saw them that he stole the show from all of them.
Larry Mishkin: [00:21:43] They had him up on stage with all these other guys and Bobby and I was great to see them all and I knew I couldn't take my eyes off a Jimmy. Hearing all night. Just standing there other than the fact that he didn't sing was just like Jerry right.
Jim Marty: [00:21:56] Right. Well and just to bring some of the other people who aren't as familiar with widespread panic the reason Jimmy Herring is in the band is they're one of their founding members and lead guitarist Michael Houser died at a very young age of cancer. He died in 2002. I don't even know if he was 50 years old yet. And so it left a huge void. It could have brought that band to its knees and had them fold up their tent but they personally persevered on and after a few different tries was lead guitar players. Jimmy Herring has been part of the band now for probably a good 10 years.
Larry Mishkin: [00:22:35] Yeah. And like I say it just it just adds a whole nother dimension to them and you know I'm already envious of you because as much as I'd love to see him kick it out to Colorado that weekend but keep the musical theme in Red Rocks going. I will be at Red Rocks at the end of July to see Tedeschi Trucks.
Jim Marty: [00:22:55] Excellent excellent. I'll look forward to seeing that with you. Yes.
Larry Mishkin: [00:23:00] Yes yes. So was this all right man. I love this stuff and hope you have a great time at those shows and lots of good stuff.
Jim Marty: [00:23:08] I'm off to New Orleans on Monday for the big MJbiz conference down there which they're doing what is really interesting this year there Julia simultaneous almost the same size event in the same convention center for hemp. So hemp and CBD sweeping the country. It's a craze. You see it everywhere. I just came back from Missouri which we'll talk about on the next show. But driving around Missouri we saw these really large CBD stores.
Larry Mishkin: [00:23:39] Yup yup yup. They got it going on down there. It's a whole new world body.
Jim Marty: [00:23:45] Yeah. I think we're at the end of our time slot so we'll go ahead and sign offs for the Deadhead cannabis show.
Larry Mishkin: [00:23:54] Very good. Thank you Jim. Larry Mishkin here with my good friend Jim Marty. And we will look forward to talking to you guys again next week.