Deadhead Cannabis Show 0012: Tedeschi Trucks review, licensing process in MO & IL and Days Between Continue

Tedeschi Trucks played at Colorado's famous Red Rock's concert venue and Cannabis CPA Jim Marty along with Cannabis attorney Larry Mishkin review the show and share stories from the show. They also talk about steps to getting a license to do business in the cannabis industry in Missouri's. They end the show with final thoughts about Days Between and Gerry Garcia's impact on the world.

*Produced By MJBulls Media | Cannabis Podcast Network*

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Jim Marty:
Hi, everybody, welcome to the Deadhead Cannabis show. Jim, Marty, here I am here in my barn outside of Longmont, Colorado. Beautiful summer day I'm looking at and I've got my partner, Larry Mishkin up in Chicago. How you doing, Larry?

Larry Mishkin:
Jim, I'm doing just fine. But I can tell you, I would much rather be in the bar and I was just there last week. And boy, oh, boy, what an experience that was. It was everything you promised. And then some. And, you know, hopefully some day it'll be one of those places where people, you know, trek out to a shrine. Well, this is where the this is where the had Cannabis started.

Larry Mishkin:
So it's really a lot of fun. And we should all have a man cave like that someday. Thank you again for your hospitality.

Jim Marty:
It's very comfortable. Yeah. We live out in the country and have a nice barn where I hung up plywood on the walls and I have all my posters from all the shows over the years hung up around the barn. And as I tell people when I take him around, every poster has a story.

Larry Mishkin:
And maybe, you know what? Maybe one day we can do a show and we'll go around and check out some of the posters and tell the stories behind them. That would be a lot of fun.

Jim Marty:
Yeah. Got some pretty interesting ones, some pictures. I took another's posters from the 60s. So anyway, we're here to talk about music and Cannabis and politics. Anything that comes to mind, Larry, was out in Colorado last weekend with his wife. And we got to head up to Red Rocks and saw Tedeschi trucks. It was a great show. They knew it was going to be a great show because we had a little rain before the show and ended up with a beautiful rainbow right over red rocks.

Larry Mishkin:
Well, you know, you're right, Jim. First of all, it was my first time back in 35 years. Last time I'd been there was 1984 to the Grateful Dead. And although I've been to Colorado a number of times since then, it's just for some reason never coordinated it up to be at Red Rocks for any kind of a show. So you get to go to the show. Was great to see you there to see Brent Johnson of the Hoban law. Group, whose our managing partner there spend some time with him was a wonderful thing indeed. He just had to go around and everybody's happy to be there and all of that could kind of stuff it. And just for our listeners to know in our episode next week, we're actually going to spend a few minutes talking about Red Rocks just in general and what a great place it is. But right now, the important thing to say is, Jim, I got to tell you, whether it's at Red Rocks, which of course, is always going to be great or, you know, in somebody's backyard or in a back alley somewhere. It's Tedeschi trucks play and I want to be there and I can't get enough of them. What do you think?

Jim Marty:
I enjoyed the show very much. And keep your eye on the opening act.

Jim Marty:
A married couple probably in their thirties, shovels and rope was their name Guy. And they put him in a great opening act just as two person band. They played five or six different instruments. Each wrote all their own songs. Keep your eye on shovels and rope. You'll probably hear more about them in the next couple of years.

Larry Mishkin:
What I think you're right, and they've actually came out and sang a song or two with the Tedeschi trucks at some point. That's one thing. Tedeschi Trucks is really good about that. You know, about bringing on their opening acts out on the stage to play a song or two with them in their main set. And it's always a lot of fun. And it was great to see those guys out there with them. But for me, what makes Tedeschi trucks and we touched upon this a little bit last time, but having just see them expression they made and I have to say it again and that that I just don't think there's a better guitar player alive than Derek Trucks right now. That's just my opinion. And, you know, I can't base it on anything other than my subjective set of ears and all the other people that I listen to. But I think they have a pretty broad spectrum of music that I listen to, jam band music and guitar players and things like that. For me, at least, what it is, is it's the different sounds and the different ways he fills the halls while he's going along. And it just drops things in right where they need to be. And if you watch him, it's effortless, right? It's like about a great athlete who just does it while the rest of us take lessons all of our lives to learn how he just stands up there and just has his own very unique style and. Wait. I just of mostly they will be spent watching him and only when I feel sorry for his wife because she's such a tremendous musician, singer and guitar player and she was in top form as always, hitting those high notes that she really had to hit. And my God, is she a good guitar player, too?

Jim Marty:
Yes. I enjoyed the show very much. I thought Derek Trucks put on a great performance. His guitar sounded crystal clear. And all in all, it was a wonderful shell. Well, in some family and usual great time at Red Rocks.

Larry Mishkin:
Yes, yes, it was. And many of the listeners out there have never quite made it out to a Tedeschi truck show. That is a band that I wholeheartedly recommend really to anybody. You don't even have to be a big time rock n roll fan, but it helps right when they check into Derek and the dominos keep on growing and the crowd goes wild and half the crowd isn't sure what it is. But by the end of the song, they're going wild, too. That's just great. And, you know, of course, there's just so much history steeped in that. Right. With Eric's uncle Butch being the drummer for the old ins of the old dynasty and the birth of Dwayne and Dwayne played and Derek and the Dominos with Eric Clapton, and there's just so much musical royalty built up there. And I can't think of anybody in the world who could be out there playing those lead guitar licks better than Derek Trucks. And he's had he's got the slide going. But we could talk about him all day and there's lots of other stuff to talk about.

Larry Mishkin:
So why did we marijuana now keep on growing? That's an island brother song, right?

Larry Mishkin:
Keep on growing is a I believe it. Derek and the Dominos song. It was on the right.

Jim Marty:
That's right. Eric Clapton.

Larry Mishkin:
Yup. No. I'll tell you something about keep on growing, because since this is the had Cannabis hour after all, I was at the Greek Theatre shows in 1985. It was the Dead's 20th anniversary and they came out. They did three shows out there to Greek. If you haven't seen with the Greek theater, that's like maybe my second favorite place to see them behind Red Rocks. And I've actually seen them at the Greek theater, I think three or four times. But it's up on the Berkeley campus and it's got a similar type of ball. But it's not like, are you a Roman type of amphitheater above the ball? There's a nice hill. And if you're all the way up to the top, you can see the clock tower and you can see say and you can see San Francisco. And it's really tremendous. And we were there the first date I was there was this large into my college friends and everybody was certainly in the right frame of mind to be seeing. So in those surroundings, they came out at the beginning of the show to Sgt. Peppers 20 years ago today. They were cruising through the first set and all of a sudden they lost power and power went out. Everybody was just kind of sat there wondering what happens next. I had never seen anything like it. And at some point after a little while, they got it going to go. They said, sorry about that. They came out to the chicken to keep on growing. And it was one of those moments I remember back to when everything about the dead was, for me, still just like that, that it isn't today. But wow, what did they ever possibly do? And they kicked into the song Keep on Growing, which was one of my favorite, Derek and the Dominoes songs and one of my favorite rock songs, period.

Larry Mishkin:
And we just all were losing it and thinking, this is how could you be want to be anywhere else other than in this place? You're looking obviously, you look out over the bay in San Francisco, there's millions of people out there. Why aren't they here with us listening to this great music? So at any rate, it's a tremendous to say.

Jim Marty:
I'm moving on to some political Cannabis things happening this week that happened this week. So Missouri applications are due here in the next couple of weeks. My term, Bridge West, has been working on some Missouri applications. It's a point system. So we're doing everything we can to score high on points. And Larry, you at some points you wanted to make and I have I have some points that we want to talk about the fairness of a points system for employers in Missouri. It's a medical model, but other states, it's full adult use. And, Larry, you had some points you wanted to make.

Larry Mishkin:
I do. I just really briefly, because I'm glad you mentioned Missouri, Jim, because there really is a lot going on there. It's an exciting time. I know you and I have talked and of course, Bridge West being one of the industry leaders that it is is getting itself very involved there. Hoban law. group is representing six groups representing one of them. But our attorney, Peter Andreotti, who works in our Kansas City office, is picking up five applications. And we're all very excited. He's a great attorney. It's great opportunity. And we're really, really excited to see Missouri come online and be able to join us that way. Yes.

Jim Marty:
With respect to the application licenses that I just want to mention, I think there's going to be about 10 times as many applicants as there are licenses. So Missouri is going to have 60 cultivation. One hundred and ninety or one hundred and ninety five retail and extraction somewhere in the middle. So it's very limited licenses for a state of about somewhere between 6 and 7 million people, I believe.

Larry Mishkin:
Less could be a lot more licenses. We're going to have an Illinois to get started on our adult youth program and we have a lot more people in Missouri, so it's a deal in some respects know compared to the way Illinois medical program came my way.

Larry Mishkin:
I look at Missouri as being light years ahead of us, you know, much younger, but we were certainly open. Yeah, it should be a good seat.

Larry Mishkin:
Now, I was thinking I'm also seen up here on Illinois because this was this was the one that's too annoying on our licenses. We're going to start rapping here in the next couple of months. And every single person who comes in my office who wants to talk about this, that we have to start off with the class, that we have to start off with this very important analogy. And I think we've raised it before, Jim, but it's important to keep raising it, which is if I want to open a McDonald's and call McDonald's franchise office, they're going to tell me it's a fifty thousand dollar franchise fee. It's going to cost you another 50 to fix up the restaurant. We'll help you with that. It's going to cost you another fifty for upfront incidentals and everything else you might see. Zero hundred fifty thousand is a lot of money. But at least, you know, if you did put up the money and you do what you're supposed to do, you're going over McDonald's to operate it.

Larry Mishkin:
Whether it succeeds or not, nobody can promise you.

Larry Mishkin:
But at least you're going to have that opportunity in a competitive state license system like this, which basically don't, you know, by competitive application. So it's not really quite fair to say lottery, although that's what it feels like. If we're going to put up two or three hundred thousand dollars to prepare their applications and countless number of hours of personal time, and at the end of that. Your odds are maybe one in 10, as you're pointing out, in terms of what the odds in some of these regions can be. Typically, the competitive application state they'll do it or divide the state up into districts. So figure in your best scenario you're looking at a to one day was there's only one other person that's still with 50 percent chance going in that you're going to spend all of this money, that you're going to walk away completely empty handed back, get your money back. So, you know, the question everyone wants to ask is, well, how do we know? Is this fair? How do we know who is going to get tickets? How is this going to work? Are a lot of people feel that it's too subjective? Certainly when we went through the program on the medical level here in Illinois, a lot of people were disappointed at the selection process, wasn't more transparent.

Larry Mishkin:
You know, unfortunately, given the reputation that Illinois walks around with, sometimes the thought of, you know, some extra political inputs sold on a scale type of thing is more than just a. You know, some people really look at it as an actual possibility. I'm not saying it is, but I am saying that, you know, it's a difficult concept battle in terms of trying to get people to think that this is really this is really the way to go. And the question becomes, why can't it just be a free market just like anything else, like our Hemp market right now? If you want to get to Hemp license, you can get it going. So you have to decide. Given the number of people in the program, is it worth it for me to be one more person out there? I think a lot of people would like to see that happen with marijuana. And the question is, is that viable? Can it work, especially in a state like Illinois that's just entering into it? What are your thoughts on that?

Jim Marty:
Well, it's a balance because you don't want to go to the other extreme and have unlimited license like we have here in Colorado and Washington and Oregon, where you have overproduction.

Jim Marty:
I was flipping through a Cannabis magazine on the airplane this week and I saw a little blurb that said it would take 10 years to absorb the inventory that Oregon had on the shelves on January 1st of this year. So while a limited license do cause some disruption in the marketplace, unlimited licenses can cause their own version of headaches. You know, to build out an industrial sized cultivation center. It's, you know, the better part of 10 million dollars or more. Then you add an extraction lab to that, another couple of million. You know, for those kind of investments, you want to have some assurance that it's going to be a stable market for your product. So it is a balancing act. Let's say you have problems with unlimited licenses, but yeah, a lot of political cool.

Jim Marty:
You know what? You know, we've seen that in various states where it doesn't hurt at all to have a lot of political connections with your state. That definitely increases your chances of getting a license. And some of these relationships go back decades and even generations where, you know, the person's father was active in politics in a particular community.

Jim Marty:
And therefore, it translates on to their grown children that now they have political connections to their family. So it happens. It's not the best of circumstances. I think when one counterbalance to that is if and I think most of the states allow small home growers. So, you know, you don't want to participate in the state regulated system. You don't want to pay the prices and taxes. Here in Colorado, every married couple can grow six plants each. That slow plants. So there's a lot of ways to address that. I always like to tell the story about how what happened in Colorado will probably will never happen again. We had over a thousand marijuana businesses in Colorado in 2009 and 2010. There's virtually no regulation. You could rent a store front and start buying and selling marijuana through your store fronts. And then we got our regulations in the late summer and early small of 2000. So that'll never happen again. Today we have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Jim Marty:
And hire lawyers and accountants and put together of eight inches high documents on the table to even be considered to have a license. But this a fast moving ball. We'll see. See how it plays out.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah, I know, because it's fascinating to me. You know, on the one hand, you're right. I mean, you know, the statistics that always sticks with me and, you know, who knows how accurate any of this is? I can't vouch for it, but I hear it a lot is that three fifths of California's animal annual marijuana output is wakes up getting sold outside of the state. And that obviously creates problems in a number of different ways, not the least of which is if you happen to be a cultivator in a state like, say, Illinois with its, you know, has an adult youth program that's just coming online. And even though we certainly have some existing cultivators who are doing a very, very good job and, you know, getting strong praise for the private Stitcher creating, you know, there's a loose either a perception and whether it's real or just imagined that marijuana from places like California just tends to be stronger, better, more enjoyable. Whatever the case may be, and if it's coming from a state where of the glut, if you will, the price has been driven down considerably. And so if I'm an Illinois cultivator, I'm not happy about the fact that I've got to compete with all of this marijuana that's pouring out of California now and making its way across the country. And I think, you know, that that's probably something that for a long time is going to keep laws in place about not necessarily being able to bring products legally across the state lines. Right. But it's a really, really interesting thing to think about in terms of how we manage that market to make sure that even the people that do get in have an opportunity survive.

Jim Marty:
Yes. In other interesting phenomena that's being driven by the cell phone technology is pretty pretty much any major city in the United States, whether it has legal marijuana or not. Now you can have a delivery service, bring Cannabis that's packaged just like it would come from a dispensary delivered to your hotel or your home. And you know how that how to stop that. With the proliferation of cell phones, I don't know. The legal Cannabis just has to compete on quality organic products, price, quality, convenience. Those are the touch points that a legal Cannabis can have that will give them a competitive advantage with the black market. I think unfortunately the black market is here and like I said, it's morphed into this high tech black market now that I don't know how law enforcement would ever even keep up with that because there's such a proliferation or they could spend a lot of resources now busting one delivery service and 10 more is going to jump up in its place. So very interesting phenomena. And the legal Cannabis industry really has to focus on what is the advantages are over the black market. So, yeah, I'll be right.

Larry Mishkin:
There's really a lot to talk about here, and unfortunately, I don't think we have time today to get into it. This is probably something we should pick up at another point down the road. And what I want to do between now and that is take a look and see, you know, what's happened in certain states with black market, you know, versus other states that have gone to adult use and how that ties into pricing and excise tax and overall output. And I think that's something that that should still be worth exploring because, you know, ultimately at the end of the day, marijuana shouldn't be different than anywhere else.

And while I'm sure there's still plenty of illegal stills out there making, you know, whiskey or whatever, that clearly is of no concern to the alcohol industry. And so I'm curious as to what point you have to go to and get to before you can really illuminate the black market as a there's a real threat chance, as I like to say, at the end of prohibition.

Jim Marty:
There was a lot of stills out in the woods and today we all go to the liquor store. So there is really no black market mother, certainly a robust black market during prohibition. So we'll see how it pans out. And the other cities and counties and states have a big role to play, too. They think that, you know, they can put a 40 percent tax on the cap at the cash register like they have in California. And that's what drives people to the black market. So they also have to be reasonable on real life, still collect more taxes with lower taxes and they will have high taxes that drives people to let.

Larry Mishkin:
Correct. That's an excellent point. And that is what we should get revisit on how states are running their programs and why some are more successful than others. What I wanted to do now, though, is switch back to this musical topics for a minute before we run out of time and really address the issue here of the days between and at our last show. As our producer. Dan, thank you. It was nice to point out to us before we we started today. We did touch on that last time. And I think we did creative in the sense, Jim, that we were looking forward to it coming up in a couple of days. But like anything that you anticipate, you've got other things going already. You can't really focus on anything. You go see great Tedeschi trucks show. But at least personally, when I get to these eight days on my way of celebrating, if you will, is that I pretty much live it myself 24/7 to Grateful Dead music with a lot of Jerry. Of course, listening to the Sirius XM Dead channel makes that easy because they are broadcasting a lot of it with some great interviews, too, with our S.F. family members and stuff that are really worth listening to.

Jim Marty:
Yeah, I got a night. Trixie Garcia has really emerged as a spokeswoman to the Jerry Garcia estate in getting the recordings out. I've been enjoying listening to Flo Jerry Garcia's shows from the Keystone back. I just listened and learned the other day. It was December 30 years, 1975. Great show, great quality. So it's good that more and more of the Jerry Garcia band shows are getting out there.

Larry Mishkin:
It is, but what it really does from, you know, we've looked for the last couple of weeks, we had been trained of, you know, taking our way through the various band members and feel who's essential and who's nonessential.

Larry Mishkin:
And I suppose at a certain level it's a silly exercise because without any one of them, there really wouldn't have been the Grateful Dead. We all do. We love. And while they may have had somebody else there who who did it, these were the guys that did. And, you know, in my mind and memory, they're always there. But, you know, as a kid pointed out and, you know, certainly always sharing the same sentiments on any given night, I think I might have been just as happy to go see the jury, go see a man show, and really just know that I was generally 100 percent Jerry all night and there was just something about him. And that's I'm not talking about elevating him like to the level of a God or, you know. I think sometimes he said he was afraid to talk at the microphone during shows because, you know, the Deadheads were hanging on every word that came out of his mouth kind of thing. But I just looked at him as somebody who was such a musician who knew how to communicate with his audience. In a way, on a level up to that point, really had never been accessed. Yeah, he certainly has opened the door for many, many others. Three other stars, Leo and Jimmy Herring. You know, a lot of times, so many of them that we don't have to go through them all. Who have also stepped up and turned themselves into tremendous jam band guitarists. But, you know, I think it was really Jerry who led the way. And by my way of thinking it again, it's just me. He was my guitarist from my era. While these other guys are great, there's something it's not quite there. And it's almost hard to describe it with an instrument, but it's almost like an emotional feeling that came out of Jerry's guitars while he was playing. Do you ever hear that?

Jim Marty:
Oh, absolutely. In his voice, too. So an interesting story is the reason we have the Jerry Garcia band and so many recordings of Jerry Garcia band shows is, you know, in their heyday, the 70s and 80s, the Grateful Dead played about 70 shows a year. And that was just not enough for Jerry. He used to say that, you know, he went he couldn't go three or four weeks without performance where he loses chops. So that's the Jerry Garcia band, became an outlet for him to play locally. And he played a lot of shows at the Keystone in San Francisco, which I don't even know if the Keystone is still there, but I've never been there. But I heard it's a very tiny bar and he would play there a lot on Sunday nights. And, you know, only in a big city like San Francisco would you have a show start at 11:00 o'clock at night on a Sunday night. So pretty much cuts out anybody who has to work on Monday morning and then, you know, Jerry Garcia.

Larry Mishkin:
But you're right that maybe vegas.

Jim Marty:
But yet they play from 11:00 at night until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and be I'll be daybreak when they'd be packing up. So that's why we're fortunate to have all those Jerry Garcia band and Legion of Mary Steve Big Steve was telling that story how one night at the Keystone, when they were under the flag of the Legion of Mary, a couple of nuns showed up before the show and informed Steve Parish that they, in fact, were the legion of Marion Mary. And they would like it very much if the Jerry Garcia band would quit going under the band name Legion of Mary. That's a pretty funny one, because you see, Dixie is a letter to nuns doing in this place.

Larry Mishkin:
Jim, I don't know if you have any of the available that they put out from those shows a keystone with Syrian morale. Saunders But the one that we had when we were in college and that time we didn't even realize how many others there were. When you opened up a double album, the photo on the inlay side was a whole group sitting back and what probably was the performers dressing room for the keystone.

Larry Mishkin:
And there's a huge group of people sitting around in the circle smoking a joint and the picture shows a joint. I can't remember if it is the nun attending the joint to somebody or if somebody is handing the joint to the nun.

Larry Mishkin:
But until right now, I had never heard the story that you just said about the Legion of Mary and nuns. And I'm wondering if they'd made peace with them in the back and everybody walked out with a smile on their face.

Jim Marty:
Lovely. The upside was that's when they became the Jerry Garcia band and dropped the legend Mary.

Larry Mishkin:
Understood. That's great. Now, one other thing that you said that I want to touch on. It's just as important as you. We could talk about Terry and his guitar playing and his banjo playing and history steel guitar playing and all of that. You know, for a long, long time. But you mentioned his voice. And the truth is that you're absolutely right. And, you know, to me, that's what always differentiates. And, you know. So even if you have a Jane mayor up there and he's, you know, playing the hell out of a Jerry tune and really doing a great job, he steps up to the microphone and sings. It's not Jerry and Jerry. These were his songs. You know, the emotion that came out of his voice, all of it. But, you know, two really interesting examples is there's an early version of the dad playing Promised Land with Jerry taking the lead vocals instead of Bobby. And when I heard it, it really, really kind of turning me upside down a little bit because you're so used to hearing it someone way and that as well. There's a version, if you might even be on one of these Keystone albums of Jerry. Jerry Garcia band playing When I Paint My Masterpiece, which again is a song that Bobby typically seeing in Concert with the Dead. And just to hear the difference, it's like almost a different song to hear Jerry sing it versus the way Bobby sings it. Not to say that it's necessarily better than Bobby. I mean, Bobby had his own signature way with those tunes and they were great. But when Jerry sang it, you know, it just credible was felt like something completely different to hear his voice on it.

Larry Mishkin:
And one other thing I'll throw out there while while I you know, I left it up to something. Yeah.

Larry Mishkin:
There's a.. When they came out with the box set of the first original Grateful Dead albums, a Roses or something, whatever they called it, and it was all they liked the first six. Right. Well, no, no. This was a box set. So it was like the first, you know, eight albums that they did on that C.D., you know? But then on the end of each one, they added on some bonus tunes, life tunes that weren't originally on the albums when they came out on the Stolen Roses album. They added a couple of songs and two of them were from the Dead playing somewhere in Manhattan, had some tiny little theater, and seven years 71 had one of them. There's a song called Hemp A Hog for You Babies. And if you haven't ever heard it, just go Google it and listen to it and listen to the dad do it. But the thing that was unique about it that people really loved was that Jerry and Pig Pen sang it together and they harmonize and they're singing it all the way through and they're clearly having fun with it. And if you haven't heard it, it's killer. You got to hear Jerry and Pig singing about my for you baby from Manhattan and 70 or 71.

Jim Marty:
I may have that out to check it out. So to wrap it up in the mail this week, I got my volume 31 of Dave's picks and it's a show for you. Dena.. Which was the first year of me being on the bus. The first shows I saw were in January and May of 79 and there is a Promised Land. It's the second song on Disc 1. And I believe Jerry just saying that I just listen to it the first time today.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah. Yeah. It's wonderful and I just can't make a pics, 31 year old. It's a great thing. And if you haven't ever picked up any of the Dave's texts become officers. I mean, there's millions of Greek debt shows, but Jesus has an ear for pulling out a really, really special shows. And this was no example to me. I just want to hear this and rap off with the days between by saying that know we can never talk enough about Jerry, but we will keep talking about them because there's so many other great things to talk about. But that's why it's just great to have one week where we can really stop and take a little bit of time and just go back and remember himself.

Having said that, yeah, it's a pleasure as always. And I will look forward to our next show. Great way to wrap it up. Over and out, everybody.

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