Deadhead Cannabis Show 0013: Woodstock 50, Dabbing & the History of Red Rocks

It's been 50 years since Woodstock: Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin talk about the event and the birh of musc festival. They transition from music to cannabis and question if Dabbing is jeopardizing the cannabis legalization movement. Jim waps the show with the history of the Red Rocks concert venue including a story about the Grateful Dead's last concert there.

*Produced By MJBulls Media | Cannabis Podcast Network*

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Jim Marty:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Cannabis Show. Jim Marty here in beautiful one Colorado taping once again from my beautiful barn, looking at a perfect Sunday summer afternoon here, about 90 degrees and blue sky. So welcome to from Colorado. I've got my partner, Larry Mishkin up in Chicago. Hi, Larry.

Larry Mishkin:
Jim, how you doing? Larry Mishkin from the Hoban law. Group. And yes, I am once again up in lovely Northbrook, Illinois. We're also having a beautiful summer day. And once again, all things being equal, I would much rather be in the barn. So, you know, you got me there again. But just so that our listeners do know, the third week in September, I will be in the Denver area for some Hoban law. business for a few days. And my plan, Jim, is I think you and I have discussed this to stay over that Friday night and on Saturday. Make my way back out to the barn together and have an opportunity to tape another show up there. So I'm looking forward to that. All right.

Jim Marty:
And we're looking forward to seeing you again and said our next soiree is going to be we get three Phish shows at Dick's Sporting Arena with camping. I think this is year 11. And in those 11 years, I think I might miss one or two shows. So it's a big treat for us, Larry, at the three schools in and I really enjoy Stitcher. So we'll dive into that in future shows. But today we've got a pretty full agenda. So Larry wanted to kick it off with some of the things that you'd like to talk about today.

Larry Mishkin:
Jim, thanks. You know, we've been focused so much on all of these jam bands and rightfully so. But every now and then, it's nice to kind of take a step back for a minute and see what else is going on in the world of music. And actually, this does have implications for divers. And I don't know, the fish was going to be involved. Certainly getting somebody was going to be involved. That was Woodstock 50. And, you know, the word that is now out there is that it's it's it's officially closed. It's officially off. Michael Lang has said that, but it's done apparently in its final its final, last gasp. It was going to be a free concert, Merriweather Post Pavilion just outside of D.C., where, for whatever it's worth, the dead end. They go see a band have played amazing shows. But it just ran out of steam. And it's it's really kind of funny. And it's funny in the sense that I obviously feel bad for him and for people who really wanted to try to recreate it. But, you know, they had Woodstock a few years ago and they've had a couple since the original and one of them in 1980. I think it was they had they had problems with riots and people getting hurt and just a big mess.

Larry Mishkin:
And Woodstock was like this once in a lifetime thing.

Larry Mishkin:
That wasn't part true because there was only one stage. Right. And it wasn't any of these other outdoor festivals that we have because it had never been done before on that level. And nobody really knew what to expect or what to do. And by. All right. It never should have taken place. And the fact that it did and the fact that it actually happened is amazing. And it just drives that point home more. Is it? Here we are 50 years later with all the modern technology and everything so much easier to just send a text and they have to try and get somebody on a phone call or they can't pull it off.

Larry Mishkin:
They couldn't pull it off and give it to me. That just makes what happened in 1969 that much more special. What do you think?

Jim Marty:
Well, you certainly have listened to it. I was too young. I was 13 since 1969. I actually was a paper boy and delivered The Boston Globe with the pictures of Woodstock on the front page of the Sunday paper. So I have some memories of Woodstock. Certainly listen to the album many times that who had a good performance, I think.

Jim Marty:
Yeah, listen, it really wasn't that great musically just because of the logistics, the mud, the rain, the people having to walk two miles in the end in their cars. But it really I think it was an awaking thing of a political movement of the baby boomers looking around at all five hundred thousand and said, hey, Laura, this is our generation now we can take the helm and take the reins politically. And we gave birth to a lot of different political movements and still took six years after that to wind down the Vietnam War. But in any event, nothing was more for me. It was a political awakening of the baby boomers, of which I'm smack dab in the middle of now as baby boomers are all aging, late 50s and 60s and 70s. As I tell my millennial kids, I say, you know, it's your world now. We've had our run.

Larry Mishkin:
Well, no, you're right. But I I will say this. I think you're right that certainly if you want to talk about musical performances at Woodstock, you know, the dead themselves often refer to their own Woodstock experience as their maybe their worst performance ever. I guess in all fairness to them, they were playing on a stage in the middle of a rainstorm, in the middle of a thunderstorm. And I used to tell the story that every time they approached their microphones to sing, they would get an electrical shock.

Larry Mishkin:
Right. So I guess knowing that, you know, I'm willing to cut him some slack on it. But it's great that the Woodstock movie, there's just one scene where Jerry gets off a helicopter or something is a punch.

Larry Mishkin:
So only smiles and waves and everybody in the audience claps. But on the other hand, it needs to be pointed out that there were really some magical music performances at Woodstock.

Larry Mishkin:
And you mentioned the WHO, and I think their Woodstock performance is one of the best they ever did, certainly. Richie Havens opening up where he just got up and they said, we need somebody. And he ran up on stage and improvised for an hour and played. He was tremendous. You know, the Jimi Hendrix said at the very end of Woodstock is fantastic. Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, where they step up on the stage and they tell you when it's only the second time they've ever played there. And they're really, really scared. And it's some of the music there is was really magical. But I guess at the end of the day, right. The point is that it really takes a lot to pull these things off. So, I mean, kudos to the folks that are truly locked in and the millions of other places that managed to get these things done every year.

Larry Mishkin:
But to me, the poster child and it is one of the greatest rock posters of all time for this type of music will always be Woodstock.

Larry Mishkin:
And there's a there's a little part of me that shifted again. Is it really? It's almost like poetic justice that it worked out this way because it just emphasizes how one in a million that was that it all came together the way it did.

Jim Marty:
Yeah. Really was it really did change. Things that changed people's vision. I think the movie was very powerful, too, because that's something. But when that came out a couple of years later, I was where 15, 16 years old member go into the movie theater and seeing them and being very impressed with the movie. So now all you young musicians out there, make sure you record all your shows and video, all your shows. You never know. You might be famous someday.

Larry Mishkin:
And if if you have not bought the original Woodstock album, it was because I think it was a three or four disc vinyl set. But yet it's certainly in on C.D. here. You have to buy it. It's a must for any classic rock n roll music collection just to be able to play through it. And here are the little snippets from all the amazing bands that played. And certainly to hear, you know, that the versions of the songs that they did at that time and it's really like owning a piece of history was actually funny in my family. We had a babysitter who may have actually been at Woodstock. And, you know, so we you know, I was 10 years old, so I was just getting old enough to kind of understand a little bit about what was going on. And we used to tease her and she she had the album and she brought it over. My mom didn't like it because there's a song on there where they spell out the F word in the middle of the song. You gets the whole crowd to get behind the chant. She didn't think that was really appropriate for us.

Larry Mishkin:
But then when we graduated high school, she when I graduate high school, Jose Bautista copies, we could have won for the house, figuring we were old enough now, but it's a great, great album, so I would recommend it to anyone who wants to.

Jim Marty:
Have believe from into the country. Joe and the fish. One, two, three. Four. What are we fighting for?

Larry Mishkin:
Yes, exactly that that you've nailed it on the head. And just as an aside, it was again, you know, it's an iconic cover on that album of the couple standing there, presumably in the morning on the last day listening to Jimi Hendrix play his set. And they've got like a really beat up old and sleeping bag slumped over them and. Apparently, they found the couple and, you know, 50 years later and that they were married.

Jim Marty:
I don't remember the whole story, but I think in today's modern Dena. evidence, having a very long wait.

Larry Mishkin:
Yep. We all grew up wondering who is that couple? Now we know. So here's what I really wanted to talk about with you today, Jim. And I'm seeing this a lot with my dispensary clients and even some of the manufacturing plants, because there's such a wide array of of ways to consume cannabis these days. The question really becomes, what's the most effective? Certainly what's the safest? And there's a crowd, of course, that really wants to know just which is going to have the most psychoactive effect on them. And I thought that we might start off today. There's just two basic ways to do it right. One way to do it is to inhale it through your lungs, whether you're vaping or touting or combusting. And the other way is to, you know, introduce into your system typically through food or through some sort of liquid, whether it's a teacher or a drink or something like that. So I wanted to start at least this week and we could talk about the rest of it. Maybe next week is to talk about vaping, dabbing and burning and yoga and maybe in terms of which is the safest, which is the least safest, you know, which which will have the best the biggest effect on you, which won't.

Larry Mishkin:
And generally where we see those three different types of of consuming marijuana going, what do you think?

Jim Marty:
Yes, very important subject because there's still people out there, I call them the Prohibitionists who don't believe marijuana should be legal, even though it does seem like it would be inevitable at this point. And, you know, they're very concerned about the. Concentrates because they can be, you know, 80, 90 plus THC days. But I say it's it's like beer and whiskey, you know? Whiskey is made out of beer mash. And, you know, you don't drink as much whiskey as you do beer. I think people are the same way about dabbing and concentrates, waxes and shatters, which are now fully 50 percent of legal sales, whether it's medical or adult use. Fully 50 percent of sales in states like Nevada are concentrates. So it's something that's here to stay. I think the biggest loser of all the when it comes to concentrated products is the cigarette companies. There's so few people smoke today. Today, the young people in this, I heard about a survey of high schoolers. Very few high schoolers smoke cigarettes today, but many of them.

Jim Marty:
And it might be nicotine, it might be CBD. It might be THC.

Jim Marty:
So today, if you want to quit smoking cigarettes, you have so many alternatives to cigarettes between like us as you have Dayton's. They get you buy you a day, pens that don't get you high. You have vape pens that have nicotine products. So, you know, my understanding I don't have any statistics on the tip of my fingers is that the large tobacco companies are shipping far fewer cartons of cigarettes today than any time in the past. So if people do want to quit cigarettes, there's a whole array of alternative products out there.

Larry Mishkin:
You know, it's it's for me, the question comes down to, well, it's two basic things. What's what's the most convenient and or discreet and what's the impact that I'm ultimately going to get for it? I mean, I start off recognizing that it's three completely different systems, right? One involves flour.

Larry Mishkin:
One, it involves oil that's already been extracted from the flour and one involves the extract itself. My personal experience shows that the extract while when Dowding has the most profound effect and I guess that would make the most sense given the THC levels in some of those extracts, there are a lot of studies being done out there on this and there's actually one or two people who I would like to reach out to in the future to possibly come on our show and talk about this, because I've heard some of them speak and they have very interesting ideas. Wired what exactly it is that.

Larry Mishkin:
We should or should not be doing. And, you know, I've heard some criticisms for the whole idea behind dabbing. It was kind of explained to me that dabbing is the equivalent of free basing marijuana that year. You're picking it up to such a high temperature. You put the extract in there, which is already at such a high THC level, it instantly dissolves or vaporizes.

Larry Mishkin:
Breathe it right in. It goes in. And the way it was explained was that it overwhelms the CBD. The tabloid receptors in your brain. So to the point where it's you know, a lot of people want it to Dowd's and your might be finished for the night as a result.

Jim Marty:
Now, for somebody who's like a little every way to go, because I'm you're going to be finished for a while. And that's how it was explained to me to as the ultra high temperature that really releases the THC to wear one or two hits off of the dabbing system will get you higher than you probably want to be.

Larry Mishkin:
Right. Exactly. And so that, you know, there has to be some sort of a balance during that. That's the part about that makes me concerned. I go to the other extreme for me and the other extreme is vaping. Well, I think that the vaping technology and the overall quality of the vaping products has improved significantly. You mean just over the last few years? I find it to be very convenient, very, very discreet and, you know, very kind of perfect for if you're at a wedding and, you know, it's somebody on your wife's side who you had to go to as an obligation, but you're not so happy to keep it hurts that they tend to work wonders on that situation.

Jim Marty:
But, you know, when find failure, when I'm glad, you know, is this a very discrete, very easy to travel with?

Jim Marty:
And yes, life's various of them is when you first get them and unwrap them, they're very good. But over time, they lose their policy. So even if there's like a little bit of oil that you can see left in the cylinder, it may not have the effects that it did when you first opened it.

Larry Mishkin:
Well, I think that's true. And I can say this, that it does not ultimately get me high in the way that smoking flour does.

Larry Mishkin:
No, but I think we're going to see men from the same from the same generation.

Larry Mishkin:
And we're from a generation that when people first started using marijuana. You didn't have many other choices short of taking a bong hit or smoking a joint. But however you were doing it. You were combusting in the west. He had some friends who tried to grind it up really well and mixed it into a brownie sauce and make a brownie batter and make you some homemade brownies. Although that writer would always inevitably all wind up in two of the 10 brownies and two people would be asked to provide to the other eight would be like this. It really happen.

Larry Mishkin:
We typically stuck to it. We stick typically stuck to smoking. And that's you know, that was always the way for me.

Larry Mishkin:
And when I take the hit, I know that I know what I'm getting.

Larry Mishkin:
I'm going to get something right away. I know how much it's going to more or less be for me. I know that I can handle it. And while, you know, I acknowledge that in the long run, there may be ways better than drawing smoke into your lungs. I do keep up on the research involving smoking marijuana. Well, nobody's saying that it's the best thing to do. It certainly doesn't fit the same type of warnings that you find with tobacco users, which I think the heart is primarily due to the beneficial and the medicinal properties of marijuana.

Jim Marty:
True. And there's a whole school of thought out there. There's not a research to back it up yet. Well, we need to. This industry needs are indeed desperately. But there's a whole school of thought out there that smoking marijuana is actually good for young Israelis or leaders.

Larry Mishkin:
And that's. And that's really something that we can do one day as well, I think, is to talk about those wholesale flames that we get from marijuana and what they can really do so. Well, I think that and of course, it goes without saying that if you're if you're combusting or burning. That's the least discreet way possible. Well, maybe not as if you're dabbing. It typically involves some sort of an open flame. So that's kind of difficult to pull off in the open as well. But it's always kind of heartening to see when you go into a data show that there's still a decent enough percentage of the crowd that's smoking a joint or something like that that I don't feel to aged yet. But I am afraid, Jim, we're going to see a day that too far down the road where your flower is going to kind of be relegated to the back of the store. And, you know, the old folks will make their way back there. You know, like they do for the easier to use electronic appliances today.

Jim Marty:
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of people that say, you know, in the future, people won't really smoke flower. They'll just be smoking their bait pens and concentrates. So. Well, very good discussion.

Jim Marty:
Let's turn the page and talk some for the last segment of the show here about some musical themes that you wanted. You had some ideas, Larry.

Larry Mishkin:
I get him and you know, this is coming on the heels of what we talked about last week with the Tedeschi Trucks Show at Red Rocks, and when we were talking about it, I was really creative toward because the purpose at that time was to be discussing the Tedeschi Trucks performance. But it's almost impossible to talk about a short red rocks without actually discussing the rocks themselves. And we will let you get into a little more detail on that in one minute, because in the 10 or 15 minutes I was able to share with you, I learned all sorts of great things that I did not like the correct set names. But for me, it's kind of a personal experience. When we pulled into the parking lot, I remembered I hadn't been here in 35 years. But from the parking lot, you look up and way up in the distance, you can see that you can see where the people were sitting. And I have no idea what the elevation differences between the parking right and where you go up there to enter the place. But I realized that age care all of a sudden become a real factor here, or at least physical physical ability. Plenty of cab drivers who were only too happy to drive us up to the top of the hill. But somehow I thought that would be cheating if I didn't if I didn't make the walk myself. And then, you know, you walk in and the view is just it's unbelievable. So give us some history, dude. How was it built? What was it built? What are the names of the rocks? Tell us about this place.

Jim Marty:
Sure. Glad to. So I've been there many, many times and I was fortunate enough. I had a hobby job in my 40s. So 20 years ago now where I was a music reviewer for our local newspaper. So I got there many times and found out many, many things about it. It was always a natural amphitheatre. And there's some old pictures.

Jim Marty:
There's a museum there where you can see some old pictures where the benches are not there. It's just an open natural amphitheater where there's Denver developed and eighteen eighties and 80s, 90s.

Jim Marty:
There were musical performances there. A lot of classical music with this woman says, and then the actual benches and finishing of it. It was a depression era Roosevelt Civilian Conservation Corps project, and I believe it was finished during World War 2. I believe 1944 where the modern red rocks as it exists today opened. And yes, I love it. I love giving people tours of red rocks. There's rocks everywhere. It's not just the big rocks that make up the stage and the sides of red rocks, but that geological formation actually goes all the way down to well, it's basically from Wyoming all the way down to south the Colorado Springs. You can see those upturned rocks that were created by, you know, thousands and thousands of years of geological pressure, pushing those rocks up at an angle. The Dena. rock immediately behind the stage is stage rock. And I think stage rock has a lot to do with the sound at Red Rocks because it's obvious it's not going anywhere but forwards. You're not going to lose any sound out the back. That used solid rock behind the musicians. And then up on one side is ship rock, which kind of looks like the Titanic sinking. And then on the other side is Constellation Rock, which has great views of the constellation and stars if you look up above it when it gets dark. So that's some of the history of red rocks. And I think some people have heard me say I can't get to red rocks early enough. So many of the shows are general admission.

Jim Marty:
So if you get there early, you can end up down in the first or second row, although in recent years, some of the big acts have figured out they could sell those seats as reserves. But back in the day, we would get up there. And I still do this for Phil Lesh. I saw him in May at Red Rocks. And so what I like to do is cook breakfast. And then as soon as breakfast is done and the dishes are cleared up, hop in the car with a pack lunch and head to red rocks. Sit there for the afternoon, get your place on the stairs. We play cribbage. We have a picnic lunch. We have lots of people to talk to in the hours fly by. And then towards that late afternoon, we'll start to put our chairs and cribbage board and cooler back in the car. And if I get there early enough, I get my favorite parking space right at the bottom of the stairs. And then, though, we have what we call runners and mules, runners and mules. And so if you have a backpack that they check your backpack, it slows you down. So we'll push some of the younger people. My sons have had this experience many times and they get up front with a blanket and they just run like deer after they get through security and then throw their blanket down to get a good spot down low, preferably in the center where the sound is the best.

Jim Marty:
So those are some of the things we like to do when we go to Red Rocks. But great venue. I'm fortunate to live just about. Exactly an hour, exactly an hour from my house to Red Rock. So if you're out of there, the music generally stops at eleven thirty and I'll be home by twelve thirty. So anyway, those are some of my Red Rocks memories and experiences. Saw the Grateful Dead there from nineteen eighty three, and I was at the very last Grateful Dead show at Red Rocks in 1987 when they outgrew it, because Red Rock surprisingly only holds nine thousand five hundred people. It is not a large venue, so it's too small for fish. It was too small for the Grateful Dead. The Rolling Stones when they're here next weekend will play at Mile High Stadium. Obviously, that could accommodate the Rolling Stones. Oh, boy, what a great place to see him would be if you could pull it off. But yeah, lots of elevation. So as you know, Denver is called the mile high city, five thousand two hundred eighty feet above sea level.

Jim Marty:
You're going to pick up another thousand feet or 900 feet, push about 6000 feet above sea level for the flatlands that fly in like Larry from Chicago. Knowledge, you have to climb a lot of squares, but you also have to get used to the change in altitude and the thin air. So it is a workout. You wake up the next day after a red rock show and you're sore. You can climb in hundreds of hundreds of stairs. So it's a physical workout as well as a great musical experience.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah, you know, I agree with everything you said there, Jim. It really is. But what you touched on there is interesting and I heard some interesting stories this last time when I was out there, and I guess I never really thought of it this way. Right. That that Red Rocks is really considered, you know, what is considered a national or certainly national treasure, a city treasure and all of that kind of stuff. And that the idea behind Red Rocks. I think you mentioned it originally was symphonies and classical music and places for families to go. And my understanding and of course, wasn't unique to Red Rocks. It happened to a lot of places. These bands got more popular, but the Deadheads and the fish heads and a lot of these other bands got so large that the concern was not even just whether or not they could get into the show for free. The potential damage they were doing to this very special natural resource just by the flood of people coming in the waste and the trash and everything that would get left behind if they really had to. As a matter of preservation, say that certain bands just couldn't play there anymore.

Jim Marty:
Yes, that's true. My story of the last Grateful Dead concert there, which was in August of 1987 when there was too many people to get in and there was for those dead shows, there was your fish as fish cut the end there. Then they let him come back after the hiatus. But they would let the kids home, kids, the Deadheads and so, so forth. Get on the hill, up above the above red rocks. There's another geological formation. You can climb up that hill if you're in shape and maybe not see the stage, but still hear the music. So that's how they handled the overflow crowd and Deadheads being the industrious people that what they are figured out that they could light some campfires on that hill while they listened to the concert. And I remember the fireman with a bullhorn at the back of Red Rocks shouting to the kids up on the hill. Put the fires out. Put the fires out. Let's look at Colorado in August. Everything's dry. It's safe for us. It was a real hazard. And of course, the Deadheads didn't put the fires out and the firemen had to hike up there with their shovels and axes and put the fires out. But that is one of the reasons that the Grateful Dead perform their last show there in August of 1987. One of my other great memories of that show is the last song that the Grateful Dead played was Knockin on Heaven's Door, Bob Dylan song. And all the kids came down from that hillside and where there's a round parking lot. Right. And today, it's a handicapped parking lot at the top of Red Rocks.

Jim Marty:
And they came down to that round parking lot and all the Deadheads were dancing in the headlights of the cop cars knocking on heaven's door. And that was the end of the Grateful Dead rooms at redwoods.

Jim Marty:
I'm running out of time on this show. But another show, I'll tell you these stories of Telluride, which happened two days after those shows. So the Grateful Dead. I remember those, you know. Yeah. August of 87. Good to.

Larry Mishkin:
It's hard to tell you. Right? Right.

Jim Marty:
Yeah. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at Red Rock shows. We had a day off Friday and drove the eight hours out to tell you. Right. Saturday and Sunday shows, I tell you. Right. And I've got lots of great stories about tell Telluride Ride that I'll save for another show.

Larry Mishkin:
That'll be great. I want to hear all of those, too. We always got a lot of good things coming up to him in the future for our listeners. We've got some great musical stuff fly that you and I have been checking around. Certainly with the fish shows coming up, there's going to be allowed to talk about there, I believe. Lollapalooza is going on here in Chicago right now. But I have to confess that maybe I've just brought a little too old. I haven't been allowed to lose it a few years. But maybe someday I'll be tempted to go back. But certainly have a lot to talk about on the marijuana side. My goodness, this stuff happened in everywhere all the time. We're about to get the rules and regs in Illinois that are going to really outline what can or cannot be done in the adult youth program.

Larry Mishkin:
I know other states are looking at a number of issues that are coming down the line. And so I think we will have no shortage of topics for listeners who want to keep listening. We hope you will.

Jim Marty:
Ok, everybody. Jim and Larry saying over and out.

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