Deadhead Cannabis Show 0011: Days Between & NY Metropolitan's Rock-N-Roll Art Exhibit

Cannabis CPA Jim Marty and Cannabis Attorney Larry Mishkin begin their Days Between preparation. This annual tribute to Jerry Garcia is celebrated by Grateful Dead fans every August. They also explain cannabis banking from the banks perceptive, highlighting the complexities of banking laws. The show ends with Larry's review of the NY Metropolitan Museum's Rock N Rock exhibit.

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Jim Marty:
Hello, Jim, Marty here that the dead had Cannabis show. I'm here with my partner Larry in Michigan.

Larry Mishkin:
Hey, Jim. Larry, Michigan from the Hoban law. Group. Always a pleasure to be here. And once again, have the privilege today of doing the show from the barn and lovely Longmont, Colorado. And it's quite an experience and happy to be here with Jim. We got a lot of good things to talk about today. Yeah.

Jim Marty:
Since Larry's still in town, we thought we'd record another show here from the barn. We approached on some interesting topics last week that we want to continue on. They've been Jerry Garcia's upcoming birthday on August 1st, the end of this week.

Larry Mishkin:
Correct? We have Jerry's death on August 9th and the new official Deadhead holiday, which is the days between the days between August 1st and August 9th. And if you're listening to the Deadhead station on Sirius XM, you'll hear all sorts of great stuff. They play a lot of Jerry concerts during this week and a lot of focus on Jerry and rightfully so. You know, he's I think he would have been 77 where he's still alive. What I want to say in 1942, 43, is it 43 or cases in 76. But certainly getting up there and age not quite still lush stage yet would be 80 in March, but. Yeah. And you know, it always makes you stop and think what life would have been like if Jerry had been around for for the last 20 years. And what would have happened with the band and what would have happened with him and all sorts of stuff like that. But it's it's really kind of neat, I guess, you know, almost karmic for Jerry that, you know, what is beginning in his end almost completely coincided. And so it's it's just a good time to stop and think about it. We talked last time about the Grateful Dead night at the movies as a way to kind of go out and remember Jerry a little bit. And, you know, especially for those of us who have seen getting company this summer and have truly enjoyed that company and the wonderful job that the John Mayer has done. There's still nothing like having an opportunity to sit around with a group of like minded people in a theater type setting and being able to look up on the screen. And there's Jerry with that, you know, smiling faces pushing his glasses up so they don't fall off his nose and then cranking into a hot whatever it is at the moment and just blowing everybody's doors off and having a lit cigarette in the ashtray on top of his arm.

Larry Mishkin:
That was always funny, you know that. What do they do in victory between sons? Jerry, smoking a cigarette? I just got a great time. And he'll be he'll be back.

Jim Marty:
So a couple little pieces of trivia related to August first and Jerry's birthday for you folks on your phones. Look up and see if August 1st, 1933 was a Saturday. No.

Jim Marty:
And then tell me which song talks about Saturday's child all grown long. I'll take it. Yeah. So with a grace.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah. Yeah. I think Hemp put that in there as a hint that the song was about you. Very interesting. That's a very interesting twist on that. OK. So I think Larry was born on a Saturday.

Jim Marty:
Every other thing is about days between. It's a very obscure Grateful Dead song. It would've been on the last album had Jerry not passed away, but it still played quite a bit. Phil recently played it when I saw him here in May. And then we got it at Ted and CO here at one of the second to last songs. Very interesting song, very hunter. Ask for verses for so many lines to a verse. True English, sonic styles, sonic style. And it goes to the four seasons of a man or a woman's life.

Larry Mishkin:
Yes, it does. And you know, it's really funny because everything changes with age. And, you know, towards the end of their playing days when they were they were playing that song. And those of us who were really hungry for, you know, all the dead songs we had always heard it was almost like, oh, he's playing this song again. Why is he playing this slow song? But we're really kind of happy for the first time was at the fare thee well show when they sing it. And again, it was like the second to last song of the last night. Right. And they pulled it out and they sang. And it had much more poignant sense to it. And it really, you know, I'm going back now on YouTube and watched Jerry sing it a few times. And, you know, as much as it is a speed and a tempo, that that wasn't the speeding temple that I necessarily preferred. I think it certainly was, like you say, Jerry, telling the story of life or Robert Hunter and Jerry doing it with the music and things slow down and you just get up and, you know, fairly typical for the dead to slip a ballad in towards the end of the second set.

Jim Marty:
Yes. Broke down, pal. Or of the red Stella Blue. Kind of just to bring the crowd down before that one last rave up to finish the set and then the encore. Yeah, it was kind of way to literally bring everybody down from where the high peaks they were on. Calm everybody down the back two days between. Yes. My favorite lyrics they're about. Well it starts out with death. Yes. You know, old old man's passing away. Then he goes back to childhood and the phantom ships and phantom sails and then has a go. The part I like is about manhood. We grew into our shoes. We told them where to go. We gave all we had to give. How much? We'll never know. Yeah, that's right.

Jim Marty:
So back to business, though. I mean, a little bit of business on this podcast. Yes. We started about that very controversial subject last time, banking and how there's horses of miss who don't want to give banking to the Cannabis industry. Well, Colorado is consistently done about a billion five a year in top line sales. Other states more. Other states less. But the point is, there's various times that almost every marijuana business when you have to get by without a checking account. And as we like to say, we don't have banking. We're lucky to have a checking account. All we're asking for is a checking account of place. We can put our money. And so I've dealt with that for many years. For one thing, you're always going to have cash on the front of the customer are generally going to paying cash. Now, some dispensaries may take credit cards. If they do, MasterCard and Visa may not know they're a marijuana business. MasterCard. These are not on board. So we don't have merchant services. For some reason, debit cards are not quite sure why the debit cards. Are a lot of our clients. A bridge was take debit cards, which seems to be just fine.

Jim Marty:
Again, I'm not an expert in banking, so I don't know why, but it is very dangerous and very inconvenient not to be able to pay your bills with a check. People that think they're being watched. People have to take different routes home at night. You're still handling a lot of cash. So even if we do get banking and checking accounts for Cannabis businesses, which in Colorado, we're lucky enough to have about five financial institutions openly banking the industry and they have their own methods of doing that. The federal guidelines for banking is something called Fin Sin, Dena. Financial Crimes Network, Sportsman Network, Enforcement Net. And there are actually rules in the CENT guidelines on how to bank the marijuana business.

Larry Mishkin:
You have your suspicious activity reports.

Jim Marty:
We have our own essay. We have a CRM marijuana, right? And so. Yes. So there's. But the thing is that if a bank wants to be a marijuana business and give them a checking account, then they have to build a very robust internal compliance department. And a bank is not going to do that for one or two marijuana accounts. Now, other banks have specialized in marijuana. I don't mind mentioning names. Safe Harbor Credit Union formed a subsidiary called Safe Harbor Private Banking. And they are banking about half our industry, their deposits in Colorado, over a billion a year. But the way they do that is they say, hey, do not come to my bank with 20 or 30 thousand dollars in 20s. That smell like marijuana instead of armored car takes the money from the dispensary directly to the Federal Reserve in Denver. And the Federal Reserve credits the checking accounts back electronically. And that's how this bank was able to do this. And they are actually now spreading this concept in these standard operating procedures to credit unions and state chartered banks around the country. And that's how we do it in Colorado. But if you are in a place where you have to pay your bills in cash, some of the stories I can relate of people standing at the utility company for hours, you know how you can pay. You put the money in the slot and the utility companies stay there for hours, pumping twenties to pay their fifty thousand dollar monthly utility bill. Other people told me it takes two to be two people two days to figure out payroll and put the right amount of cash in each envelope, including things less than the dollars they'd have changed.

Jim Marty:
Now to get the two people two days to make payroll for 30 people, the only way you can pay your bill is with a face to face meeting. Hardly something the technology savvy, savvy millennials would be happy about of spending more than two or three seconds on a transaction. True in their word. And then the way the IRS handles it is in Denver. You can take your cash to the IRS. Income taxes is one thing, but income taxes are really only once a year or four times a year. If you're making your estimated payments, but payroll is every week or every few days with a large payroll, the IRS wants your taxes remitted to them within three banking days. So how do you do that when you've just paid your payroll by handing all your employees envelopes with cash right down to the penny? Well, the answer is the IRS will accept cash. A very good attorney, Rachel Gillette, a few years ago won an argument with the IRS and said that if you pay your payroll taxes in cash, you make a fair effort to pay them timely. We won't penalize you. The IRS has started out by saying, if you pay us in cash, cash, 20s, I use that you say 20s, because that's where you see a lot of the marijuana business. You pay us in 20s. We're going to give you a 10 percent penalty for not paying us with a check. And Miss Gillette said, hey, that's not fair. We don't have a check to give you. We can pay you cash. And it's just a legal tender on this 20 dollar bill. And her argument prevailed.

Jim Marty:
So now I like Rachel. Oh, she's great. Yeah. And now I hope she doesn't mind us using a name. I'm sure not in this instance. I would hope not. But anyway, if you call the IRS, then you say, hey, I've got to bring in out 20, 30 thousand dollars of payroll taxes. And let them know ahead of time you can make an appointment. They have special rooms with cash counters where you can bring your cash, pay it. And if they can't see you within that three day window and it's their fault, not ours, they will waive the penalty in that case as well. So that's some of the little nuances on how you can survive without a checking account that leave. Nevada is largely unbanked.

Larry Mishkin:
California's largely unbanked Illinois, our largest banks that had been doing the industry business for about a year ago. All of a sudden, very abruptly one day sent out letters to all of their accounts, all other Cannabis account saying no longer going to maintain our Cannabis accounts and we're going to close the door. And I think that would be the last time, Jim, we were talking about the Senate hearing and about the SAFE Act and all of that. And the real issue, obviously, with banking and the bankers perspective is not only do they have a big burden to bear, but they they face potential individual personal liability bills, criminal and civil. If you're a banker and you don't do your due diligence and you take your money, that's dirty and it goes through your bank and comes out on the other side, laundering you as a bank or face personal responsibility for this. And there's few industries that are going to have sufficient cash flow from a bank to make it worth their while to engage in that kind of risk or not to do it, at least without the level of due diligence that we see now, which makes it almost, you know, economically unfeasible.

Jim Marty:
Exactly. If you're Chase, if you're Bank of America and your profits are 20 feet off the ground anyway and you're doing a lot of banking for the federal government, you're probably not going to want to have much do with the marijuana industry until we get a change at the federal level. So, yes, the the bill before Congress is called the Safe Act, and it is designed to be able to give banks more comfort in opening their doors to the Cannabis industry, which in my opinion and we'll see if I'm right in a few years, I think smoke will get THC based. Marijuana is going to be a hundred billion dollar industry. It probably already is. If you count the black market right, then you bring in Hemp. There's a lot of banks that are still on the fence on Hemp, even though it just came off the Controlled Substances Act a few months ago. They're still not ready to jump on even on Hemp. I believe we have over 300 Cannabis license holder clients. I don't think there's one of those that have not received a letter that you're talking about saying your account is closed. You've got to scramble like crazy. So anyway, those are some of the nuances of getting paid in cash.

Jim Marty:
Our company is very fortunate to have a good banking relationship because we from time to time get paid in cash and we bring it to our bank and will go unnamed right now. And they're happy to accept our cash. If you receive ten thousand one dollars in a single transaction, you have to fill out a form 80, 300. No big deal. What is kind of the big deal for maybe 300 is not all you have to put out. Who paid you but also who delivered. So this came directly from an IRS agent that I was talking to one time, about two eighty three hundred. And she was given she was actually said this is an educational visit, nothing scarier than an educational visit from the IRS, that she was a very nice revenue agent. And she said so. Yeah. Here you put down to Page and here you put down the delivery. Let's see. You know, a lot of times these deliveries are made by young people with tattoos and they're not so willing to give their name. Address and Social Security. And she said, that's OK. Just write down. Would not provide. And you've covered your bases. So that's how you fill out a form 80, 300.

Larry Mishkin:
That's a good thing to know, too. So, you know, lots of interesting stuff with this sitting around waiting to see how the SATs will eventually handle the spanking issue and whether a common sense will find its way into this industry. I guess the deal for you and I, Jim. The flip flop on it is right on the one hand, as long as rules with no to 80 years on the books. Nobody knows how to do their taxes when it comes off the books. You know, the banking rules clean up. It'll be wonderful for the industry and I guess it will be nice if we don't have to go and save people's butts so much anymore. But yeah, you know, be careful what you wish for. My dad always says, right, we have to think about that, too.

Jim Marty:
280E a whole different animal that refers to the non deductibility of expenses. We could do a show just on Tuesday, so we'll skip that today. Yeah, I will close up with a little more music. You are going to talk about the exhibit you saw at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City.

Larry Mishkin:
They have to teach him all summer long. You and I have been sitting here talking about rock n roll. And what's really funny about it is, is that the bands that we're talking about, you know, like the Grateful Dead and Dena. Company, they've been around forever. Phish has been around forever, but maybe not quite at the same level. Widespread panic. Tedeschi trucks and of course, Derek Trucks is the nephew of Butch Trucks. He was the drummer for years and years with the Allman Brothers. The Met in New York put together an exhibit on rock and roll instruments. And it's called something like Life Noise, Your Life Music. And it's just absolutely incredible. And anybody who's going to be in New York and have an opportunity to get to the Met, I don't think I can recommend it strongly enough. Normally, when I'm in New York and my wife wants to go to the Met, I make up a good excuse not to go look for this. I went and the guitars that they have, they had Jerry's Wolf's guitar, they had Jerry's I Tiger guitars. They had guitars from the Beatles. They had guitars that Eric Clapton recorded his albums on. They had Duane Almonds, guitars, they had the guitar, the Jimi Hendrix set on fire at the Monterey Pop Festival.

Larry Mishkin:
The remaining pieces of that guitar and of the entire exhibit. My favorite one was a blank chase with a little note that said this item is currently on tour with the Rolling Stones. And when you read the card, it was Keith Richards guitar. And when you think about that, it's somebody like the Rolling Stones who've been around long enough in their career that they've elevated to the status of having their instrument placed in a museum. And yet here they are actually out on tour, still using. You can't have my instrument yet. I need it. But they had drums and they had bases and they had synthesizers and move equipment. And they had some of the most fascinating videos I've ever seen. Jimi, I would go just for this video of Jimmy Page sitting there explaining to a group of people how he created the the notes in this instrument city, the noises on his instruments. And he explained that the idea behind the double neck guitar, Stairway to Heaven and how it was the only way he could get those sounds and songs that we've all heard all of our lives. Here are the guys behind the scenes talking about how they were created and how good they were, how they were developed.

Larry Mishkin:
But my my personal favorite story out of all of this and you and I were discussing this earlier, is that earlier this summer when Denning Co was playing at Citi Field, that the New York Mets home ballpark in New York at the suggestion of somebody, we're not exactly sure, although rumor has it it was Jay Blacksburg who who's the Grateful Dead photographer. Other word was put out to John Mayer should play loft that night since it was right there. The exhibit. Apparently, Steve Parrish, who was Jerry's roadie and probably one of the few people they would trust Wolf with, went over, arranged for the guitar to be delivered to Citi Field. John Mayer went out and played the night on guitar and wearing my wolf hat. And, you know, for those of us who love Jerry, that's a it's a magical instrument and a magical moment. But just to be standing, you know, a foot away from it behind plexiglass was pretty darn cool. So if you haven't gotten there, you should really make an effort to get there while you still can. It's.

Jim Marty:
But I've listened to a little bit of that Citi Field show and the Wolf guitar sounded great. Always does. It always does. It's funny. I came across my old UMass newspaper a few weeks ago, the Berkeley edition, when the Grateful Dead played our football stadium. May 12th, 1979 is a great picture of Jerry and he's playing as well. Guitar.

Larry Mishkin:
Sure. That was the 90s. Yeah, playing the wonderful guitar. So at any rate. For those of you who were trying to get your spouses to go with you to museums in New York, this is a great one to go to. It was a great exhibit. And you bought the book at the end because why not? We always do. It's highly recommended.

Jim Marty:
And I wasn't at the Citi Field show, but I've heard it hurts video and seeing clips and the camera man.

Jim Marty:
When John Mayer came on stage with that, zoomed in on that, Wolf. That's on your head. Yeah. And I guess the crowd went crazy and realized that that. Had Jerry's guitar, he was about to play it. Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Mishkin:
A great job. Well, another great show, Jim. Yes, but it's great to get to come out here to the barn and see you and your wife and family and everybody. It's all having a good time to have you in town.

Jim Marty:
Well, thank you. I'll be back for sure. OK, terrific. So love with that, I think will say over and out.

Larry Mishkin:
Thanks very much, everyone, for listening. Good to see you.

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