Deadhead Cannabis Show 0010: Tedeschi Trucks Band & Congressional Cannabis Banking Hearings

Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin are together in the famous Deadhead Cannabis Barn for a pregame before the Tedeschi Trucks concert at Red Rocks. They take a Tedeschi Trucks deep dive into their music, talent and musical influences. Heaping high praise on Susan Tedeschi as one of today's most powerful female vocalists and according to Larry, Derek Trucks the best guitar players on the planet. They also recap the recent Congressional cannabis banking hearings and speculate what influence it will have on the industry.

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Jim Marty:
Hi, everybody, and welcome to another edition of the Deadhead Cannabis show. Jim Martin here. Hey, Jim, it's Larry, Michigan.

Larry Mishkin:
I'm here as well. Hoban law. Group. But today I am actually in Longmont, Colorado, right here. Actually meets here today. Right. I'm in. I'm in the famous barn.

Larry Mishkin:
And for those of you that don't know of the barn, go to the Web site. You'll see some pictures that are going to get posted. But this is the type of Deadhead man cave that most of us always dream about having. And so being out in Colorado for a couple of days, I was only too happy to make the pilgrimage and not see it firsthand. It's quite a sight.

Jim Marty:
Well, I haven't talked enough to have a nice barn and I put up some plywood fiber board, which is very friendly for hanging up all the posters I've collected over the many years of going to concerts. So welcome to the barn, Larry. Glad to have you here. Be a beautiful day in Colorado. Nice summer day, although we might get a thunderstorm this afternoon. And after we get time with this, Larry and I are gonna head up to Red Rocks to see Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks.

Larry Mishkin:
Right. And Derek Trucks. And I know we like to talk businesses and music, but I think in this instance we're gonna have to talk to music first for a minute. And Tedeschi trucks are really starting to come into their own. And, you know, even I find that, you know, like my son's generation and his crew, they love it. Older people love it. And how can you not? Susan Tedeschi is such an amazing talent that we could just talk about her for half an hour. Her voice range and her guitar playing. And when she does Angel from Montgomery, it brings tears to your eyes. She's that good. And if it weren't for Derek Trucks, that's all anybody would be talking about. But, Mike, this is just one man's personal opinion, I think. Derek Trucks is the greatest guitar player alive today. And he's just so amazing. He doesn't do anything but just kind of sits there half the time. He's almost hiding behind the drum kit. And I wait from the show on the big screen, watch him play that slide guitar. And it's it's amazing. And just be able to see him at Red Rocks. This will be my first time back there, Jim. And thirty five years since I saw the Grateful Dead there in nineteen eighty fourth last night. I was there. They broke out. Dear Mr. Fantasy, now.

Jim Marty:
Well, it's to my third Red Rock show this year. I got to see widespread panic there at the end of June. They played a great show. And then I saw Phil and friends there at the end of May. But I'm looking forward to tonight. I'm thinking we're going to hear some Allman Brothers songs since really? Now that the Allman Brothers have disbanded since Duane died a few couple of years ago. Greg, right. Greg Orman. Yes. Couple of years on for a while. Yeah. They're both kinda right anyway. Yeah. So this is one of the outlets to keep Allman Brothers music alive.

Larry Mishkin:
It is. And they're just tremendous. Although they've played a few songs in the past, they cover Mr. Charlie and Sugary. And it makes me wish that there could have been a time when we could have heard The Grateful Dead. Susan Tedeschi actually singing for them, right? Yeah. And how amazing that would be. Yes. I loved Jerry's voice. I loved Bobby's voice. But and, you know, I'm not here to give any grief to Dinah Jean. God love her. She was an integral part of it all, too. But Susan Tedeschi is just a talent on another level. So very excited about that tonight.

Jim Marty:
I'm sure we'll be heading up there here shortly. Indeed. See, for me, you can't get to Red Rocks early enough. I'll get up there if it's a Sunday show. I'm gonna cook breakfast and leave right after breakfast and hang out on the steps. If you have a ticket, you can hang it on the steps and be one of the first ones in get prime seating. So looking forward to and I'm back to one of my favorite spots on the planet. Elise, you talk some politics in there.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah. So where we're at today, Jim, is that on a Tuesday, I believe it was of this week, we had a rather historic hearing in the Senate in that historic in the sense that, you know, years from now they'll be teaching about it in school, although maybe they will. But historic in the sense that the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, headed up by a Republican Senator Mike Crapo of Indiana, actually hosted a hearing on the banking issue with Cannabis, kind of in conjunction with the fact that in the House, the Safe Banking Act has passed committee and we're waiting for the House as a whole to take it up and vote on it other, because they're going to be doing that soon. The hope was that the Senate would, in fact, debate it. Maybe why? One of the reasons this was so interesting was just a week or two ago, Senator Crapo said that he would not hold a hearing on this. He's the head of that committee.

Larry Mishkin:
He said he would not hold a hearing on this because until the government makes it legal, it's premature. There's no need to do it. And it's just. Giving giving a little too much attention to the Cannabis industry. So, you know, first of all, I think that, you know, the first thing to talk about is that a Senate, a Republican run committee in the Senate was even willing to address the issue at all.

Jim Marty:
Yes. Well, having Dan go into Washington, D.C. for at least the last five years to lobby Congress on Cannabis issues with the NCAA National Cannabis Industry Association, it's a tough sell on marijuana is a tough sell in Washington. A lot of people think it's a controversial vote. I heard. I'm not sure if it's from a reliable source or not, but that Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to have any votes hit the floor of the House before the 2020 presidential election. She doesn't want to have to put her members out there on what some people consider a controversial vote. I think my opinion is Trump would sign a marijuana bill if it hit his desk as he did the farm bill at the end of last year, basically legalizing Hemp. So, yeah, I don't know that we're going to see much activity of any kind out of Washington, D.C. until after the 2020 election. You know, haven't been there many times. And anybody who watches the news or follows politics in Washington, D.C., doing the right thing comes in about fifth or sixth place. There's so many other interests and priorities that people have. I think I've said it on this show before, but my opinion is that Washington, DC is not just going to hand us a marijuana industry.

Larry Mishkin:
We're going to have to fight for it. We don't have to pay for it. They'll probably a federal excise tax. And there'll be other aspects that are not monetary. Social justice issues, carve outs for minorities, access to capital for minorities. It is the Christmas tree effect. Not to get a large bill to pass something to happen in Congress will take, you know, a little bit here, a little bit there. Have been around the Christmas tree here and there. So it is encouraging. There are still a lot of people who think marijuana is harmful. I think we've seen the social aspects and discussed them thoroughly on this show that we haven't seen a rise in fatalities and marijuana related traffic fatalities. And there's also evidence that in the states that have legal marijuana, opioid overdoses have gone down. So I think, you know, personally, our personal opinions here, of course, are that it's a harmless drug that many people enjoy and it should be legal. Felt that way since I was in college back in the 70s. So we'll see. But I think we could all take a good long nap and not miss anything between now and November of 2020.

Larry Mishkin:
I think you're probably right. And it's I mean, if there was a lot of question afterwards as to how serious the approach was in the first place. Senator Crapo did say that they were trying to see if they could find a way to address the issues. On the other hand, he also said that he does not intend to hold any additional hearings on the subject matter. So, you know, my sense was that they didn't get it all done. I think it was also an opportunity to allow certain people to get up and to talk and to have an opportunity to, you know, to say the things they wanted to say. And one of them was a gentleman named Garth Van Meter, who comes from one of the I forget which one of his groups is is more prohibitionist. And there they're cautioning against it. And basically, you know, Mr. Van Meter's position is that what we've done here is we're we're in the middle of a drug crisis. We're actually here. You can sense whether we want to promote an increased drug use during an addiction crisis or discourage drug use and help people find recovery and healing. However, as you've heard us talk about on this show and as many, many people have talked about, a number of experts are exactly looking to marijuana to be the means by which people find recovery and heal from the harmful effects of opioids and the addiction that's trapped many of these people for a long, long time.

Larry Mishkin:
And the ability to use marijuana to make that transition is a very, very powerful thing for the people who have actually done it and who have found that, you know, tell this to people who are undergoing chemotherapy and can't eat a meal. And how horrible Lazio. And the only thing that saves them is they get their marijuana brownie once a day and it gives them an appetite that lets them go out and engage. So when Mr. Van Meter, the name of his group of smart approaches to marijuana, makes a statement like that, in my opinion, it's disingenuous. I'm not saying that. He's not saying he's entitled to his opinion, certainly. But it seems to me to be more of these general scare tactics that we've all heard our whole life about, all the bad things marijuana could do. And why should we make one more substance legal when we already have too many people are harming themselves? And I guess my response to it is, is because as you've seen here in Denver, Jim, is people are even going to just switch from alcohol to marijuana. The social effects that have happened in this state has been overwhelming.

Jim Marty:
We haven't seen a lot of negative consulate attack. We don't have an opioid crisis, in my opinion, in Colorado. It's not on the front page of the paper. We don't have people dying every day. I mean, I could be misinformed and I'd be happy to hear the other side. But I think it's pretty well known that the states with legal marijuana have less of an opioid problem with states that have still have prohibition on on Cannabis and Canada's products.

Larry Mishkin:
Well, you're right. But this is so here. There's one little, last little passage we can talk about here, which really sums up the whole idea of what's going on. And so the one Senator Brian Schatz, came in and he actually spoke about research barriers from marijuana and wanted everyone to know that he had co-sponsored bipartisan legislation that would address the issue, would actually allow research to be conducted. And then our friend, Mr. Van Meter, came back in and said, well, if the marijuana industry was really concerned about research, then I don't think they would be selling some of those extremely high potency products. Well, it's that kind of a statement that throws all of this off off track. The marijuana industry and many, many people who are advocates of marijuana have been begging for years and years and years to be allowed to do research. And the government, both Republican and Democrat, year after year after year, has said, no, we're not going to allow it. It's Schedule 1. And so we're not going to do it. I have no idea what correlation he's trying to make between wanting to do research and high potency products. But if they were really concerned about the effect of those high potency products, again, they would be allowing the research to go forward. You can't say we're not going to allow research. But all we've got all of these terrible problems with it.

Larry Mishkin:
If you're not going to let the research go forward and actually prove itself, no others than a very controversial topic of whether to allow state legal marijuana businesses to have access to banking in check. Right.

Larry Mishkin:
And what a lot of these senators say, both again, Republicans and Democrats, is that they recognize that this is a problem. They do recognize that the industry needs the banking. They do recognize that it has to pivot away from being an all cash business. And in order to really become the huge business that it has the potential to be, there is no reason why the members of that industry shouldn't be entitled to all of the same services as any other industry out there. But I think what you said before, nobody is going to go around claiming to take a political bonus points for coming out in favor of the marijuana industry.

Jim Marty:
Right. It's considered a controversial vote. It's not controversial to me. Are you sure? For a lot of people, if you're a legislator from Utah, Indiana and maybe the buckle, the Bible Belt, maybe it is a controversial vote that will hurt you with your base, which, by the way, is, I think, number two on the list of what to do in Washington. Number one is, will it help me get re-elected? Number two is will it offend my political and donor base? The list goes on, but you get to five or six, you get to do the right thing and you they'll do the right thing, but only after many, many other criteria are met. I know that sounds cynical, but is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, a representative republic. Democracy like we have is the worst system on the planet except for all the others.

Larry Mishkin:
Something like that. Something like that. Well, we're going to have lots more to talk about this as it goes forward. It's something that we're going to keep tracking. I know that the House is talking about moving perhaps on the safe, thinking, actually going to keep an eye on that as other states come on line here. Oh, there's going to be a lot for us to follow. I know Missouri applications are coming due very soon. I'm working on a few of those. I know, Jim, you're involved in Missouri. Great state of Missouri. Absolutely. My home state.

Jim Marty:
So it's been a year from now before the medical program is actually delivering Cannabis to patients. But applications go in in August, license will be issued October, November, and we'll be growing legal marijuana in the Show Me state.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah, very excited about that. So to pivot back to our second favorite topic of music. I think that Tedeschi trucks, if you haven't ever listened to them, go out and listen to them. You need to hear their music because they're that good. And I couldn't be more excited to see them tonight. One of the things I want to ask you about, Jim, is stuff that's making the rounds right now is the new documentary by trying to Stacy. And I don't know if you've heard about it yet or seen. I have not. It's it's really fascinating. I have not seen it. Some of my sons and their friends have seen it. And, you know, like anything else, you know? Ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it, it gets into a lot of who Trey is and what he's all about, but it really examines, I believe, the drug abuse problems that he had and the demons that he had. And most importantly, though, I think that at the end of the day, it comes out as a as a as a story of victory because of how Trey was able to shake those demons and put himself where he is today at the same age. Jerry was when he died, only stronger than ever.

Jim Marty:
Right. That's been the talk of the summer, is that Trey is now older than Jerry was when Jerry died. Yep. And he sure looks like he's in great health and playing great music. You saw a a couple of weeks ago, 100 percent.

Larry Mishkin:
And I mean, really, he's he's just it's like he has new motivation, new energy. And we shouldn't say new. He's he's had it for a while since Phish 3.0 came back out. But again, for me, as a as a as a lifelong Deadhead and somebody who saw the debts for our documentary when it came out a while back, which, although ostensibly about the dead, ultimately focused on Jerry and his heroin problems. And in that instance, Jerry wasn't able to overcome them and felt the desire, not the desire, but the need to keep the machine moving forward so that everybody who was associated with it and depended on it would be able to we'd be able to keep making, you know, making a living to an in fish, you know, Trey. And with the help of his bandmates, not to say the dad didn't try to get Jerry to stop. But it's really remarkable what they've done. And I'm going to see the documentary very shortly. And I think I would probably recommend that everybody see it.

Jim Marty:
And trade talks about it as a life changing experience when he was empty in the trash at the county fairgrounds with an ankle bracelet on how he thought about how much you really miss fish.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah, that's true. You know, you don't you don't appreciate what you have until it's taken away from you. And, you know, they came back stronger than ever. And along the movie scene, if you ever made it to one of the Dead's annual meet up in the movie, you know what?

Jim Marty:
I think I will because they're going to be doing some of them on during the days between.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah. Yeah. Well they have one night for sure. I think it's on August 4. So Jerry's birthday, which is coming up. And just as a quick teaser for next week, we will be talking about your birthday, Jerry's death. The new official Deadhead holiday called the days between and all of that. But today, while we have a few minutes. This is something they started a few years back in the first year they did it. They showed the Grateful Dead movie, which you've never seen. The Grateful Dead movie is one of the great rock and roll movies ever made. And if you knew nothing about the dead and you just see that movie, you'll come out of there knowing something about the dead. But this is this is a show I think this is a giant stadium show that they're going to be showing. And for me, it's just fun to get back out there and to be in an audience like setting. And yes, it's not really a live up on stage and all of that, but that's OK, because if you like, if you open your eyes and you look up, it's Jerry Garcia looking back at you and you have a crowd of like minded folks. And, you know, depending on what movie they have in the theater next door, sometimes it gets interesting over whether the fans in the dead of your cheering louder than not the noise from the theater next door. But it's a great thing to do and it's a great way to keep Deadheads to gather together. So I would I would definitely recommend it. Yeah.

Jim Marty:
I think the show is the summer of 1990. It could be it could very well be pretty close to the end of the road there. Get into the 90s. We're getting close to the end of the Jerry shows, right?

Larry Mishkin:
Well, they do. People say that 90 was the last really great touring year of the band. Yeah.

Jim Marty:
A lot of people thought they really slept. The less Grateful Dead show I saw was May of ninety five. So just two, three months before Jerry died and it wasn't, you know, up to the caliber of where it had been in the past. And I certainly noticed that Jerry was looking at that show that was out in Las Vegas at the Silver Ball.

Larry Mishkin:
Yeah. And I was at last for shows too. And St.. Lewis, too, at Soldier Field. And The Soldier Field Show was my buddy. And I got up to walk out during the Black Muddy River and poor because it just was it was it was it was more than that. It wasn't disappointing. It was sad on a real level to see this man up there stumbling through a song in Black Muddy River is a fine song. I have no problem with it. He just put it out of his way. And luckily, Soldier Field was big enough that, you know, before we all the way got out. You know, Phil came in and saves the day and said, we're not ending the tour on this note. And, you know, kicked into a really nice box of rain, which I think if you're ever going to have a final Grateful Dead song of all time played by the band is as good as any. And sure enough, a month later, Jerry was dead and it explained a lot. But it was very sad. Yeah. And that box of rain was the end of that, was it? Which was very cool. When they came back for a fare thee well, the first song, the first night was Box of Rain. That's right. Hold it all back together. Yep.

Jim Marty:
Larry and I went to the fairly well the three summers ago now for 2015 Chicago 30th anniversary. That was a great time. All right. Well, I think you were coming in and. Time slots. Yeah. Look forward to a. We pride do an entire show on how this industry functions without banking and financial services. Larry and I are both experts on that. And we, of course, have plenty more music things to talk about. I have to say, it has been a great, great summer musically with fish on tour, dead on tour, widespread panic, doing a great job and numerous other bands.

Larry Mishkin:
Today, read all of it. Yeah, and you're absolutely right. It's been great trucks since trucks. Right. It just keeps getting better and better as the summer goes on. So I don't know about you, Jim, although I'm having a great time here at the barn and could stay here all day. I'm just about ready to make that early entrance over.

Jim Marty:
I can't talk if you really love it. OK, guys, it's over.

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